<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">Hi Tim,<div><br></div><div>Method 2 is from this paper: <a href="https://iopscience-iop-org.ezp.lib.rochester.edu/article/10.1088/1742-6596/719/1/012018">https://iopscience-iop-org.ezp.lib.rochester.edu/article/10.1088/1742-6596/719/1/012018</a></div><div><br></div><div>As far as I am aware part of the underlying assumption in this method is that you use the electron entropy advection approach for 3T described here: <a href="https://flash.rochester.edu/site/flashcode/user_support/flash4_ug_4p7/node101.html#SECTION06215000000000000000">https://flash.rochester.edu/site/flashcode/user_support/flash4_ug_4p7/node101.html#SECTION06215000000000000000</a></div><div><br></div><div>I think FLASH can only do this for gamma law EoS, and even then I don’t think this has been well tested outside the results of that paper. The principle motivation for this method is for treating the biermann term at shocks. If this is indeed more stable I would double check that you have the shock detection turned on, which will reduce the contribution of the biermann fluxes at detected shocks. <br id="lineBreakAtBeginningOfMessage"><div>
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">*********************************************<br>Adam Reyes</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><span><img alt="FLASH.jpg" src="cid:EA5A7E59-94B9-4162-879C-B52E774AEA24"></span><meta charset="UTF-8"><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); 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<div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Apr 16, 2024, at 7:26 PM, Timothy Mark Johnson <tmarkj@mit.edu> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div><meta charset="UTF-8"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Hi Adam,<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Thanks for your reply. Your comment inspired me to look at the source code more. I found that there are two “methods” for doing the Biermann3T flux in the hy_uhd_addBiermannFluxes.F90 file. I’ve tried out method number 2 and I got much better stability and time stepping. Is method 2 alright to use? I see that there are differences in how the electric field is calculated between the methods, but I’m not sure of the significance of the differences.<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Best,<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Tim Johnson<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div style="border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(225, 225, 225) currentcolor currentcolor; border-image: none; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><b>From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Reyes, Adam <<a href="mailto:adam.reyes@rochester.edu" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">adam.reyes@rochester.edu</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, April 15, 2024 2:47 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Timothy Mark Johnson <<a href="mailto:tmarkj@mit.edu" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">tmarkj@mit.edu</a>><br><b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:flash-users@flash.rochester.edu" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">flash-users@flash.rochester.edu</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [FLASH-USERS] Stability and timestep issues with 3D Biermann3T Laserslab simulations<o:p></o:p></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Hi Tim,<o:p></o:p></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">The time step limitation and subsequently the numerical instability I suspect is due to the requirement of the biermann3T (required for 3D cartesian) switch to also include the hall MHD term. The reasoning is explained a bit in the <a href="https://flash.rochester.edu/site/flashcode/user_support/flash4_ug_4p7/node103.html#SECTION06235200000000000000" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">user guide here</a>. The gist is that the flux-formulation of the biermann electric field results in a Poynting flux that can advect magnetic energy, that implies some electron enthalpy transport with velocity u_e = (u - J/en_e), hence the hall term.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">You might try relaxing this requirement in "source/physics/Hydro/HydroMain/unsplit/Hydro_init.F90” and allow “hy_usehall=.false.”, but I can’t speak to the physical consistency of such a choice.<o:p></o:p></div><div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;">*********************************************<br>Adam Reyes<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><br><span id="cid:image001.jpg@01DA9000.B0030A80"><image001.jpg></span><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;"><br>Code Group Leader, Flash Center for Computational Science <br>Research Scientist, Dept. of Physics and Astronomy<br>University of Rochester<br>River Campus: Bausch and Lomb Hall, 369 <br>500 Wilson Blvd. PO Box 270171, Rochester, NY 14627<br>Email </span><a href="mailto:adam.reyes@rochester.edu" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;">adam.reyes@rochester.edu</span></a><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;"><br>Web </span><a href="https://flash.rochester.edu/" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;">https://flash.rochester.edu</span></a><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;"><br> (he / him / his)<br></span><span id="cid:image002.png@01DA9000.B0030A80"><image002.png></span><o:p></o:p></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;"><br>*********************************************<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><br><br><o:p></o:p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">On Apr 15, 2024, at 8:12 PM, Timothy Mark Johnson <<a href="mailto:tmarkj@mit.edu" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">tmarkj@mit.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Hi FLASH users,<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">I’ve been trying to do some 3D FLASH MHD simulations of laser ablation focusing on the Biermann battery generated magnetic field. I’ve run into issues with stability and a very small time step that make the simulations infeasible. As a test example, I took the Laserslab example.par simulation, moved it to 3D, and added Biermann3T. Attached is the .par file that I’m using. For a CFL of .1, the simulation starts out with timesteps of about 1e-19 and crashes (negative 3T) after about a thousand time steps. It also crashes for CFLs of .05 and .025.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Does anyone have advice for dealing with stability issues and small time steps in 3D Biermann3T simulations? I’m hoping to be able to run my simulation for a few nanoseconds.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">For the setup command, I’ve swapped +uhd3t for +usm3t from the Laserslab setup and made the simulation 3D cartesian.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Best,<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Tim Johnson<o:p></o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><flash.par><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;">_______________________________________________<br>flash-users mailing list<br></span><a href="mailto:flash-users@flash.rochester.edu" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;">flash-users@flash.rochester.edu</span></a><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;"><br><br>For list info, including unsubscribe:<br></span><a href="https://flash.rochester.edu/mailman/listinfo/flash-users" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;">https://flash.rochester.edu/mailman/listinfo/flash-users</span></a><o:p></o:p></div></div></blockquote></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>